For the last 13 years, Jeff Greenberg has been happily ensconced on the Paramount lot, where he cast Cheers for the final seven of its 11 seasons and Frasier for the subsequent six. Like most casting directors, he began as an actor, but, unlike most casting directors, Greenberg acted successfully for many years. He gave it up quite unexpectedly when Linda Francis, a friend, asked him to fill in assisting her on a single film project while her usual assistant was unavailable. Greenberg fell in love with casting and never went back to acting.
After assisting Francis for three years and nine features, Greenberg successfully struck out on his own. His work has included stage (including plays at the Taper and the Tiffany), screen (including Look Who's Talking, Father of the Bride 2, and the Paramount feature A Night at the Roxbury), and television (including Nothing Sacred, Wings, My So-Called Life, Newsradio, Early Edition, Dear John, and, of course, Frasier and Cheers). He's also picked up four Artios awards and three Emmy nominations along the way.
Currently, Greenberg has added to his very full plate the new Nathan Lane series Encore! Encore!
Back Stage West/Drama-Logue: Tell us about Encore! Encore!
Jeff Greenberg: It's very exciting. It stars Nathan Lane, Glenne Headly, and Joan Plowright and it's by the Frasier creators David Lee, Peter Casey, David Angell, as well as Chuck Ranberg and Ann Flett-Giordano, who came from the Frasier staff. Nothing could make me happier than to be able to say the phrase, "I put Joan Plowright in a sitcom." She's unbelievable. Talk about skill! The show will be on NBC at 8:30 on Tuesdays‹right after Mad About You and before Just Shoot Me, so it's a great time slot. Nathan plays a big opera star who loses his voice and doesn't know what he wants to do with the rest of his life. He's really not prepared or qualified to do anything else. So he returns to his family's winery in Napa Valley, where his mother, a sister, and a 15-year-old nephew are.
BSW/D-L: There were some cast changes after the pilot was shot. Can you talk about that?
Greenberg: When you put all the elements of a series together, you try to get the best combination of everything that you can. Then, when you're in production, the producers look at what they have and sometimes there are elements that don't work. Maybe it's the set or a scene or an actor. Doing a pilot is really hard. To create this whole other world, a story that makes sense and characters that are appealing and interesting, every element of it, every production element of it, is a real fine art, and not a lot of people can do it well. But the reason you make a pilot is to make sure that the whole soup has come together well. Sometimes there need to be changes and sometimes one of those changes is related to casting. Sometimes you realize that you need someone younger, or older, or a different type.
One of the roles we re-cast was a role of a 15-year-old teenager. The original kid we found in New York was fantastic. He won the role fair and square after we went through a very heavy audition process and we really liked him. But what we found when we got him together with Nathan Lane and Joan Plowright was that, while he was right for the role, he didn't have the chops to keep up with them. He just didn't have the experience. Not that it was a disaster. It just wasn't as good as it could have been and, going into a new project, you never want to set up a situation where the writers are going to want to write away from an actor. You don't want to put them in a situation where they're worried that they shouldn't write something for an actor because they don't know if he'll be able to handle it. You want to be able to give anything to any actor on the show, regardless of age or type, and know that they can do it.
We thought that we might be able to get a stronger kid, so we did a nationwide search, contacted every regional theatre in the country, called acting conservatories, put out the breakdown nationwide, talked to casting directors in Chicago, Toronto, Seattle, San Francisco, and Minneapolis, and we went to every high school in Southern California. We really searched. We found a kid in St. Paul, Minnesota who is phenomenal. His name is Trevor Fehrman and even though he's only 17 years old, he's done about 30 plays since the fourth grade. He's really quite experienced. We don't need people that have on-camera experience for these four-camera shows. It's about theatre experience. We really put him through it and he was very consistent. He's very funny, completely adorable. So we had to make that change.
Just about every pilot that gets on the air has a cast change. Either someone wasn't right or sometimes they feel the chemistry wasn't there; sometimes the look is not quite right. It's just so unfortunate, because there's nothing more horrible for me than having to fire an actor. It's a nightmare. It happens, though, because finally, you have to do what best suits the project. The play is the thing. These are hard decisions that are never made lightly.
When we were shooting the pilot for Frasier, the role of Roz was initially played by Lisa Kudrow. She was great and we all loved her, but during rehearsals we found that the show was off-balance. There was all of this conflict in the home scenes but there was very little of it in the radio station scenes. The character that Lisa had created, which is exactly what we wanted her to do, wasn't going to provide enough conflict, and Frasier is funniest when he's pushed and conflicted. We had to make a change. It was a dark day for us because we love Lisa, personally and professionally, but we had to go with a personality who would more readily go toe-to-toe with Frasier. That's a perfect example of a change that had to happen, and it wasn't about good acting, it was about good casting.
BSW/D-L: What's your advice for people who go through that, who seem to have the brass ring and then lose it?
Greenberg: The only advice, and this is not just with pilots, it's with anything, is that nothing is set in stone. But don't think about the "what ifs." Just do the best you can.
BSW/D-L: And recognize that it isn't about you or your talent?
Greenberg: Actually, I hate to say this, but sometimes it is those things. Sometimes the actors weren't good enough. Their best performance was their audition. Sometimes their work on film is different than it was in the office. Now this is sometimes, and often it's our mistake. Sometimes the work just isn't strong enough.
BSW/D-L: Do you have any advice about rejection in general?
Greenberg: I think that even though actors usually don't get cast for reasons that have nothing to do with them, be it their hair color or height or chemistry or whatever, it still is a rejection. You're rejected on some level every time you don't get a part. I think if that's going to be a problem, acting is probably the wrong career for you. I think you have to find a way to know and realize that you weren't the best choice for the role and that's OK. If you can do that, you're ahead of the game. And it's a hard thing to do for an actor at any level, at any age.
BSW/D-L: Somebody once said to me that actors have to have more than talent; they have to have a talent for survival.
Greenberg: It's true. The perseverance factor is hanging in there and not letting the business get you down. And if you hang in there, while you wait you can keep getting better and better at your craft.
BSW/D-L: And at auditioning, because these days, it seems the whole performance has to be there from the get-go, doesn't it?
Greenberg: Unfortunately, in television, it's more about result. They really want to see the performance in the audition room and at the first rehearsal. On the very first day of rehearsal, if it doesn't work, something's wrong‹either the actor's wrong or the material's wrong. And if they've heard the material work in the audition and it's not working again, they have to figure out why. Sometimes it is the material and they'll fix that, or sometimes the actor's not working and they give them an adjustment to try to make it work. If it still doesn't work, then they have to make a change. But it's about result. Fast. It's too fast.
BSW/D-L: Theatre-trained actors aren't used to that. They're process-oriented. And yet, you prefer theatre actors.
Greenberg: Well, they're so well suited to this four-camera process. Sitcoms are like doing a 22-minute play. They're performed like theatre, in sequence, whereas film often is not. They require actors who can make adjustments quickly and then have the chops to recreate the performance time and time again. Sometimes actors without a lot of stage experience have a difficult time completely recreating what they did. Actors need to know that for sitcoms, when something works, retain it. The directors don't want you to keep experimenting with it‹they want you to keep experimenting with the things that aren't quite working.
BSW/D-L: Does that mean that, if you get a role, you should recreate what you did at the audition?
Greenberg: Unless they give you an adjustment, they want you to recreate what you did in the audition. And if that gets laughs at the table reading, they want you to recreate it the next day.
BSW/D-L: So there's a lot of pressure at the table read.
Greenberg: Yeah. It's a nervous time for me because a lot of the executives and creators who were not a part of the casting process are seeing the actors for the first time as well as hearing the material. And they're always very quick to judge it. The beauty of Frasier is that the words are everything. It's so beautifully crafted that if you're right for the part and you understand it, you can just say the words and it will be funny. You play the reality. Comedy is, of course, best when it's rooted in reality.
BSW/D-L: You once said to me that you think actors shouldn't feel the need to sell themselves at auditions. They should just be themselves.
Greenberg: Every actor's asset is that there's no one else quite like him or her. So rather than make themselves like everyone else, actors need to trust their own special uniqueness. Certainly they have to play a character, but the trick is to find a way to tap into something of yourself. That gives it a reality. Use who you are, as well as your techniques and skills as an actor, to create something else.
BSW/D-L: There are casting directors who love to chat with actors before a reading, and then there are casting directors who want to get down to it with very little conversation. What do you prefer?
Greenberg: I really love to chat and get to know someone, but sometimes there is simply no time. Often I'm seeing three actors every 15 minutes for a small role, so there's no time for schmoozing. The actor must learn to always take the cue from the room you walk into. If they want to chat with you first, they'll chat with you. They'll ask questions about you, about your resum , about the material, whatever. If they say, "OK, could you begin at the top of page two," you do that. At the end of your audition, you have to take your cues too. If we say, "Thank you very much," that is your cue to leave. I have seen someone be so wonderful in an audition and we say, "Thank you," and I know they are going to get the part‹and then they launch into a story about God knows what and you just want them to shut up and let the work stand on its own. I've seen so many actors blow it, not from the work, but from not taking the cues from the room.
BSW/D-L: Do you like the fast pace?
Greenberg: It can be very stressful, but this is the perfect job for me. I love working in television and movies. I love actors. I love the shows that I'm fortunate enough to work on.
BSW/D-L: Do you ever get burnt out?
Greenberg: Well, one asset of the job is that every single day is different. I'm always having to cast new roles and meet new actors. And it's just so much fun. My job is never boring, because every day is filled with new challenges.
BSW/D-L: Do you go to the theatre?
Greenberg: Yes, often. But I'm tired of walking out on things at intermission, so I'm very selective about what I see. I read reviews and I talk to people. I really do a little investigation to make sure it's going to be a good evening of theatre.
BSW/D-L: So that's one way you meet actors. And you look at every picture and resum , don't you?
Greenberg: I do. And I meet with people either because I think they might be right for whatever project I'm working on, or just because there's something about their resum or photograph that makes me want to meet them. There are like a hundred people in my "to meet" folder at any one time and when I have time I call them in. I also get an enormous number of referrals of people I know who want me to meet someone they know. I never mind that, because they're just being talent scouts for me. Everyone does know someone wonderful out there, and I like to know about them. BSW/D-L
Quote of the Week:
"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." ‹Muriel Strode