Between a good actor and a great role stands a casting director who has the vision to see when one is made for the other. In the world of casting directors, there are few busier than Deborah Aquila, Lisa Beach, Mali Finn, and Debra Zane. Between them, they have more than 50 years of experience and have worked on 19 Academy Award-nominated films--five of which have taken home acting honors. The quartet recently took a break from their nonstop schedules to chat with The Hollywood Reporter's Noela Hueso about their jobs, the art of finding new talent, and what makes a great actor.
Question: What actors have delivered intriguing performances this year?
Debra Zane: Actually, I haven't seen a lot yet, but I'm looking forward to seeing (New Line's) About Schmidt. The little bit that I saw [in a trailer] was vintage Jack Nicholson--
Lisa Beach: I don't know how vintage his performance is--I mean, he is vintage--but it's not necessarily what you've seen him do before. It's a brilliant performance.
Zane: The New Yorker says Brendan Fraser is excellent in [Miramax's] The Quiet American.
Beach: I would love to see Diane Lane get nominated [for Fox's Unfaithful].
Mali Finn: I've seen better performances in the independents this year--across the board. Has anybody seen [Sony Pictures Classics'] Love Liza with Philip Seymour Hoffman? He's just amazing; he is emotionally naked. It's one of the finest performances I've seen. Other little breakout performances like...
Zane: Like Ray Liotta in [Paramount's] Narc.
Finn: Exactly. Like Jason Patric in Narc. Campbell Scott's role in [Artisan's] Roger Dodger fit him like a glove. Emile Hirsch in [ThinkFilm's] The Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys. There were a lot of young performances this year that were really good.
Deborah Aquila: Adrien Brody in [Focus Features'] The Pianist--that was a magnificent performance.
Q: It sounds like this has been a good year for actors' roles.
Zane: It's better than last year. This year has been good for women. Look at [Paramount's] The Hours.
Q: How would you size up the current crop of aspiring actors?
Finn: When I'm reading young people, I have to go through a hundred kids to get two or three. There is so much bad talent in the youth market. Managers and agents pick kids off the street and then test the waters with us. I have people calling me all the time to see if their client has potential. I end up being the screening place for these people to decide whether or not they want to work with somebody.
Zane: Networks like the WB have created all these shows for younger people, and no one is trained. So [performers] get hired because they happen to be really attractive and look good on film. They're learning on the job and have camera skills, but they don't have acting technique.
Finn: It's in-your-face acting.
Aquila: And they pick up bad habits. They imitate. Imitation is not based on a solid foundation. They will eventually waver on it and fail.
Q: What is the definition of a great actor?
Finn: Somebody who takes risks, who really knows himself, and who will reveal something personal and unique; someone who has great humor and charisma; someone whom the camera loves; someone who can peel the layers of the onion away to get right down to the core of communicating on a very intimate level. When I'm with an actor who can do this during a casting session, I feel like I'm a voyeur, or that I'm eavesdropping because it's such a real moment.
Beach: I'm currently doing [Universal's] American Pie III, and I have to cast a lot of one-line parts. If an actor can make a one-line part humorous, you can see that he's thought about this and has taken the time to get it--he's the person you want for the role. There's nothing I hate more than a lazy actor. Despite the size of a role, an actor should say, "You know what, it's important for me to respect this line."
Aquila: Being prepared. The most frustrating thing for me throughout the whole search for Primal Fear was when we went through about 2,100 actors in 17 cities and three countries, until one sunny afternoon when Edward Norton walked in. It's the preparation; it's the thought behind it; it's the exploration of the characterization within the text.
Finn: Then, with all of that preparation, they've got to come into the room for the audition; they've got to come onto the set for the scene--and there can be no acting. It's just got to be seamless. There have been comments about Eminem in [Universal's] 8 Mile that yes, he's compelling on the screen, but will he go beyond that? How much range will he have? Is he really going to be able to be an actor? What he did in that movie is one of the most difficult things to do. He is basically playing himself in the film. You have to be very brave to be so vulnerable and open. During the audition process, he allowed himself the room to give to himself and those other actors.
Zane: You surrounded him with great people to support him.
Finn: [Director] Curtis [Hanson] was smart enough to have that seven-week rehearsal period when he brought in coaches to help Eminem prepare. In that time, they also worked on the text, so that as people were cast, they would rewrite scenes and really find a voice for the people. It was that period of time when Eminem could just learn from others and grow.
Q: How do you match an actor with a role?
Finn: Uniquely.
Beach: Instinctively.
Finn: I can have 1,200 people show up at an open call. I'm going to shake their hands and look at them when they say hello to me, and then I'll select maybe 20 people out of the 150 that are in the room and work with them for about 10 minutes. So, first of all, I'm going on looks and also on instincts. If it were another casting director, she would probably select different people. Actors who are trained and spend all that money on conservatory work have to understand that if you're in a cattle call, it's purely by instinct that you're chosen by a given casting director. But that's what makes us all unique in this business; we all have our own different instincts.
Beach: I've cast movies where I've said after reading a script, "Oh, my God, if so-and-so doesn't get the part, then there's no justice." I remember when I read Election, the part was Reese [Witherspoon]. She was so perfect! So for me, it was just going through the process of seeing these other girls. A lot of them were very good, but it was always Reese. [Director] Alexander Payne saw many girls, but in my mind, Reese was always the perfect choice.
Finn: There are some people who will be on our list automatically. We know actors, and we know what they can and can't do. Other than that--especially when you get down to smaller roles--a lot of it is very personal and subjective. That's why I do my own prescreening [rather than letting an associate do it] because I can't miss somebody.
Aquila: If I can get that hit right here [points to her heart], then I know it's right.
Finn: The life and energy of a scene comes from the give-and-take between two actors.
Aquila: If I'm reading with an actor, and my reading changes based on that person's reading with me, that performance is true; something's going on. All of a sudden, their choices are really very interesting and unexpected because I've changed.
Q: Is there any particular role that you've cast of which you are the most proud?
Zane: I'm really proud of the three kids in American Beauty. I am really proud of Erika Christensen in Traffic. I think it's more about the cast, though, than a single character.
Beach: I'm really proud of my Girl, Interrupted [1999] cast. Years ago, I went to my first Artios Awards when David Rubin, whom I was working with at the time, won for [1991's] Fried Green Tomatoes. Norman Lear gave him the award and said, "Casting is making that perfect fit. Every little part in Fried Green Tomatoes is a perfect jewel." And I thought, That is what I aspire to. So when I did Girl, Interrupted, I strived to make each one of those girls--the pathological liar, the burn victim--a perfect fit.
Q: Name some casting challenges you've had.
Aquila: Recently, casting [Miramax's] The Human Stain was a challenge for us in the beginning because we had to match [Anthony] Hopkins as a young man, and because of the story line, the actor had to be a person of color. The character passes as a white man, and you don't know he's a person of color until much later in the story. We saw Wentworth Miller, who was definitely right for the part. There was this awkward moment, though, when I had to ask him about his ethnic background. It was uncomfortable. He knew what I was going to ask, and he smiled and said, "Yes, my father is black." I just said, "Oh, thank you for making that so easy."
I also learned a lot casting the little Iranian boy, Jonny Ahdout, in [DreamWorks'] The House of Sand and Fog, in terms of cultures--how we all have to co-exist in a small space.
Finn: When I started casting L.A. Confidential, offers went out to the usual suspects for the two cop roles. Everybody passed because there wasn't one star; it was two guys. It was really a buddy situation. So at one point, [director] Curtis [Hanson] said, "Are there some people that you've been wanting to cast?" I sent him a tape of [1992's] Romper Stomper with Russell [Crowe]. It caught his eye immediately. Russell was touring someplace in Australia. We had him come over, and Curtis spent the day with him and put him on tape. He was approved. Then Guy Pearce walked in, and Curtis said, "Please don't tell Regency that he's Australian. Here we've got this American film, and we've found two Australians! Please don't tell them he was in [1994's] Priscilla, Queen of the Desert! [Laughs.] Once we got these two actors, we still didn't have a greenlit movie. That's when Curtis went back to Kim [Basinger], who passed a couple of times, and took her to the Hermosa Cafe three weeks before shooting began and said [referring to Crowe and Pearce], "This is why you're doing this movie." When you put a cast together, so much is in the timing.
Zane: Absolutely. You may have your dream cast, but they're not available.
Q: How do you scout new talent?
Beach: You prescreen until you die.
Zane: Our work is all very project-specific. No one has the time or the staff to constantly be combing Los Angeles and finding the next unrepresented person who might want to do your film. When we get busy, we do go to the clubs, to the churches, to the town, but it ends up being for a very specific role.
Finn: You have to be on the streets. When I was casting [Universal's] 8 Mile, I combed the clubs of Detroit. I didn't have a local casting person; I had a guy who went with me. I started going to clubs at 12:30 in the morning until 3 or 4 a.m. Three Floors of Fun was my hangout every weekend. It's three floors of rap musicians playing. I saw every rap group, I think, up there. I went to local theaters, and I saw those actors. Then I put out notices.
Aquila: When we were doing Last Exit to Brooklyn, I had to cast 21 transvestites and Tralala, who was the main character. Well, they don't start working until midnight, and they go to bed at probably 8 or 9 in the morning. We combed through the meatpacking district of New York all-night long. I would give out business cards--and they thought I was vice. They didn't believe me. Then word started to spread that this wonderful book they had all been enamored with for years was being done as a film. Then, of course, it was never safe to open my door.
Finn: I recently did this [MGM] film called Out of Time with Denzel Washington, [which filmed] in Miami. I went to the Haitian community with fliers that said, "Do you want to be in a Denzel Washington film?" No one knew who Denzel Washington was!
Aquila: When I worked with the Iranian community for The House of Sand and Fog, we had an open call. Only one person showed up. They didn't know what this movie was about. Many of these people are extremely religious. They wanted to know what the potential fallout would be because there wasn't enough knowledge about the film. They thought the film could have political or sexual overtones. In an open-call situation, you can't publish the script. You just have to ask the participants to please trust us when we say that this is a film of importance and great value. It will do nothing to dishonor anyone.
Finn: When I was doing [1996's] A Time to Kill, I went into the black community to find an actress to play the role of a little girl who is raped. I started out in Oxford, Miss., and I went to a preacher there because I know the church is the focal point [of the community]. He sent me on a trip though Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. I would go to Sunday services, and the minister would get up and say, "There's no sermon today because Hollywood is here!" It was great because they made announcements at the church. Because it came from the church, there was a connection.
Q: Do you call up the agencies of represented actors and say, "Hey, I want to see so and so," or do they just automatically send them to you?
Finn: Both.
Beach: They do official submissions...
Zane: ...Or we will call them in. If you're working on a project, and you're up to your elbows, and someone wants you to meet someone in a general way, what I usually do is have them sit down and read a scene that they may be right for.
Q: How do you get hired? Are your jobs based on relationships that you have with other people?
Zane: If it's a studio project, then generally, there's a person at the studio who will suggest people to the director and show him resumes and what not. Then the director will decide who they want to meet if they're available. It's actually an availability thing. If it's an independent thing, they might be called directly.
Beach: Or you work with the same director. I work with Alexander Payne and Wes Craven all the time. Everybody has their own directors that they work with on a regular basis.
Zane: Sometimes--just like an actor--you have to go in and meet to get the job. You talk about the material, conceptually, and see if you're in sync with the director, so that you can spend 12 or 16 weeks with him.
Q: How much control do you ultimately have over who gets the role?
Zane: Well, the director always has final say...
Finn: And he should. He's the one who's on the set with the actor.
Zane: You can offer your opinions. Getting what we want by explaining, showing, comparing, auditioning our heads off, by videotaping every movement, is, in fact, a big part of our job.
Aquila: It's influencing the decision, just by virtue of the fact that you have done your homework.
Zane: They want to hear what you have to say, which is why they hired the casting director; that's why the job exists, really. We direct and filter the casting process.
Aquila: They want to hear the individual spin that you have, which is different with the four of us in this room. We're different people, and we come from different backgrounds and approach the work differently.
Zane: Some directors don't want you to have too big a mouth, so you have to be careful how you talk. Some of them just want to hear what you have to say. They may not listen to you, but they want you to sit there and say, "If you hire that person, I will take my name off the film."
Beach: Casting by Alana Smithee. [Laughs.]
Aquila: It takes a lot of people to make a film, and it's a collaborative effort, but there's a lot of white noise that goes on in the production of a film. You have to cut through it so you can help the director, who has a lot of people talking to him and is being pulled in different directions all the time. You have to help him make the clear choice in a very focused way; that's not always easy.
Finn: Sometimes, it means bringing in an actor who is completely different from what the director has described. Sometimes, that influences his perspective on that role in a totally different way.
Zane: My job is to help the director be as creative as possible.