The recent Talent Managers Association Symposium "Casting From A to Z" was designed "to help actors learn more about casting directors so they can be better prepared in their pursuit of a successful career." Held Nov. 3 at the Camino Theatre on L.A. City College campus, the symposium's co-sponsors included Back Stage West, backstage.com, Breakdown Services, Showfax, Merlins Energy Source, and Fiji Artesian Water. Moderated by Paul Bennett of PB Management, the panel consisted of Patrick Baca of Nassif Baca Casting (credits include TV series Strip Mall), Shawn Dawson of Ulrich Dawson Kritzer Casting (credits include TV series V.I.P.), Michael Donovan of Donovan Casting (credits include TV series Fudge and Super Adventure Team), Donald Paul Pemrick of Pemrick Fronk Casting (credits include One False Move and Shakes the Clown), and Stephen Snyder of J.S. Snyder & Associates (credits include features First Watch and Unshackled). Questions were submitted by the audience and presented by Bennett.
Question: What do you look for in an audition?
Stephen Snyder: Show up. Actors don't show up sometimes.
Patrick Baca: It's not always what you do with a line. It's the wonderful stuff between the lines that writers can't write but actors can bring to it, the quiet background work. It's unforgivable if you come in unprepared, winging it. That's not going to get you the job.
Donald Paul Pemrick: I personally want you off book. This is so my director can work with you. Ninety percent of the time, we don't prescreen. I want you at performance level because when you read for me, the director is there.
Michael Donovan: Several of us were actors, so we understand. We'll be your best friend, and we'll be your worst enemy, because we know. When you're unprepared, we're thinking of the stack of photos over there of people we didn't bring in.
Snyder: We have no time to do two to three weeks of prereads. We'll take you directly to the director. Come in prepared. The script is everywhere we can make it available, and you should at least read the entire breakdown to learn relationships.
Donovan: Get all the sides for all the characters. If you're up for a lead role, you can bet you'll learn about your character from reading all the sides.
Shawn Dawson: Often scripts are available in our office but nobody picks them up. Do your homework before meeting the producers. The stupidest thing actors can do is ask questions of the producers.
Q: So actors should come in having made strong choices?
Dawson: Make a choice.
Donovan: Don't ask what we want you to do. We want to see what you do with the material. Show me why you're the one for the role.
Baca: I'm more apt to direct you if you go with a good, thought-out choice, than if you play it safe and stay right down the middle.
Pemrick: I don't see a wrong choice. There's no right way or wrong way, only your way.
Donovan: With commercials, you must be trained and ready to go with strong choices—but not outrageous choices.
Dawson: There's an acting school that tells actors to do something outrageous in order to be memorable. I can tell the actors from that school. I've had my hair played with. I've been kissed. We, as casting directors, remember these people—as freaks.
Baca: I've been slapped. I'm totally there for the actors, but if you're going to slap me, get my permission first.
Q: How can actors get in front of you?
Snyder: Every submission gets opened, but I need you to tell me why you're sending it. Are you looking for a general? Inviting me to a play? I love postcards. Include your agent information and a little resumé on the back. Let us know you're out there.
Pemrick: We open all mail and look at every resumé. We're always doing something. So, if we don't need them today, we don't just throw them out. I loathe postcards. I absolutely loathe them. They are a pollutant waiting to happen. My partner Dean loves them. I personally love a letter without a headshot and resumé. I will attach that letter to your headshot that I already have. That's just me.
Donovan: A submission needs a letter inside it. Postcards are great, but if they're not sent for a particular reason, it bothers me. Invite me to something. I see tons of theatre. There are 1,200 productions in town a year, so you should be doing something.
Dawson: We open everything. I love postcards. If I like your look, I'll tell you to bring me a headshot and resumé. A postcard with a label and no handwritten note, just a printed invitation to your theatre performance, is so random. We like it personal. This town is about relationships.
Q: Will you watch an unsolicited demo reel?
Snyder: Yes.
Pemrick: We'll put our feet up and watch a bunch of them at a time. Send a self-addressed, stamped envelope to get the tape back. We don't want to throw them out. Don't send a scene from acting class, or a performance at your sister's bat mitzvah. Include three to four scenes, and tell me what show I'm about to see.
Baca: Put your best stuff at the beginning of the reel.
Donovan: And the reel should be no longer than five minutes…
Baca: Three minutes!
Donovan: …and not include work where you were an extra.
Q: How do you feel about casting director workshops?
Pemrick: I absolutely go. I have no qualms about it. I hire a lot from workshops. And from generals. We have an open-door policy. Bring by your headshot and resumé. If we're there, we'll say hello.
Snyder: I do workshops. For me they're a great opportunity to visit with 20 actors in two to four hours. I'm no good at the general. I'd rather see you work. Workshops let you establish a relationship in a no-pressure environment. You're not paying to audition. We don't do it for the money. We do it because we have passion for what we do. Just make sure you're at a level to show the goods before you do workshops.
Donovan: The debate over workshops is outrageous. If you don't want to go, don't go. I recently hired a series regular from a workshop. It's a great opportunity. The general is a waste of time. I'd much rather see you audition for me, and not for a specific role as much as for the future. What does a mass mailing cost? $300? That's 10 workshops. I would think you'd be better off getting your work in front of people instead of an ice-cold envelope that may or may not get opened.
Baca: Especially today in the anthrax world. I do workshops because I love to teach, to give something back.
Dawson: I'll spend the first hour of a workshop telling our office's likes and dislikes, recommending what to do when you come in for the producer.
Q: How does the casting process work for you?
Donovan: Breakdowns are useful for me. I'll sort the photos into yes, no, and maybe piles. I'll hear agent and manager pitches, set up audition times, and start seeing people.
Baca: When I was casting an MTV pilot, I had to see the whole town. We had six to eight weeks to cast, and saw 30 to 40 people a day every day. A MOW is limited. We'll get maybe three weeks to cast it.
Dawson: A series is cast weekly. We'll get the script on Day One and have producer sessions on Day Four. That's two days to preread 800 to 900 actors for one line. We'll then bring six people in for producers.
Donovan: For commercials, we'll see 75 to 100 people a day, and 20 percent will get callbacks. It all depends on the budget and how many days we have to cast.
Snyder: Go to every audition you get offered. It's a numbers game, and the more times you show up, the more opportunities you have. If you can't make it, call. I remember the names of the people who don't show up.
Q: Do you have input at the producer level?
Snyder: We help with the psycho factor, where the producer tries to pick between actor A and actor B and will ask, "Who's less of a psycho?" We know the answer, so don't be a high-maintenance actor.
Baca: I discourage the hiring of high-maintenance actors.
Pemrick: That's with regard to representation, too. We know how receptive agents will be, and which ones will know the money offered up front but will still try to negotiate. Make sure you're on the same page with your manager and agent.
Q: When there aren't many credits on a resumé, how important is training?
Dawson: This girl tested for a series regular role, and she was new to the business. She was one of three girls we discussed hiring. She'd trained here and here and here. The director wanted to know why she wasn't any better. Training is great, but training can hurt you. Just because your resumé is great doesn't make you a better actor.
Donovan: If you have no credits, you must at least be trained. There's certain training I respect more than others. Audit classes; ask friends which coaches are respected.
Pemrick: I need to see that you are currently perfecting your craft. I need to see dates on your resumé.
Snyder: If you've done 80 plays, say that, but list only your top 10.
Baca: Your credits, your photograph, and your representation: that's why I'll bring you in. Training doesn't make that decision for me.
Snyder: You should be in a theatre company, doing improv, sketch comedy, commercials. Work out constantly. You should love acting and love the process of acting.
Donovan: Check in with where you are. You're not always going to use the same bag of tricks. The bag you used as the hot babe at 25 is just not going to work as well at 40.
Q: Are online casting services worth the money?
Donovan: I was a beta tester for CastNet. It seemed to make sense ecologically and economically, but it's not going that way. There's something cool about holding headshots and resumés. But, if it's $60 a year to get in an online service, it's worth it—especially the Academy Players Directory online. Grab every possible opportunity to be seen.
Pemrick: I still write lists on yellow legal pads by hand. I don't like computers. I don't like e-mail. I think it's a way of separating people.
Baca: Online casting is the wave of the future. I regularly use IMDB and the Academy Players Directory online. I think the tech-friendly younger casting directors will cause it to take off.
Snyder: I'm as old as a dinosaur, and I access IMDB or Academy Players Directory online or CastNet. A demo reel on CD is fine. Send me a link to your headshot and resumé in an e-mail. Have your bio and reel on your website, but I don't want to have to take a test to get on your website. Make it easy for me.
Dawson: I tried it, but until we know that 95 percent of all agencies are online, it's twice the work. We do online and paper submissions because we don't want to miss anything.
Baca: CDs at Sony aren't opening unsolicited mail right now. That's a strong push for online submissions.
Bennett: What about submitting ethnicities that aren't mentioned in the breakdown?
Baca: I think it's great. Terrific.
Donovan: I disagree. If I put it out as Caucasian, 45, male, I want white 45-year-old guys. I love when an agent calls and asks if I'll consider female, but I don't want them to just dump it in the submission.
Dawson: I agree.
Pemrick: Once I did breakdowns with just character occupations. For the role of the janitor, I got submissions of African-Americans only. For the truck driver, I got white males, heavy, 35-50. It disturbed me that those limitations exist in the mindset of the actors' representation.
Q: Should non-union actors submit to you?
Dawson: That's no problem.
Donovan: It's no problem, but don't lie about your union status.
Pemrick: SAG-eligible means I can hire you, but you'd better be able to pay your money to SAG before the shoot begins. Be upfront. Be honest.
Snyder: If you're SAG-eligible/must-pay, and beyond the 30-day period, you must pay before I shoot you. You can't wait for that first check and then use it for dues.
Pemrick: Do everything in your power to get as much theatre and student film as possible before getting in SAG. Then put all of your efforts and energy into getting SAG vouchers.
Donovan: We can Taft-Hartley you by your skills, so don't lie on your resumé's special skills section. List your skill level for what you do.
Q: What happens when agents and managers both submit the same actors?
Snyder: A good manager will call and ask if he or she can send in a second submission.
Pemrick: I would like the manager and agent to talk before submitting.
Baca: Talking to the manager is like talking to an actor's wife. It's personal. But as for submissions, it goes: agency, manager, individual actor submissions. I open envelopes in that order.
Donovan: Oh, and if you're submitting yourself, know that breakdowns are sometimes created to try and bust you, if you're getting them as actors.
Pemrick: Be vague. Put the film name on the envelope, but not the role. The film we're casting is public information, but we'll know you're getting pirated breakdowns if you also know the roles. In our office we open the envelopes in the order received.
Donovan: Me too. Even with individual submissions, have your agent and manager information on the resumé. I'm very open to self-submissions. Write the show title on the outside of the envelope and have a cover letter inside.
Baca: Include your service number. If I kept your headshot from a play I saw you in three years ago, you may not be with that agent anymore, but your service number could help me find you.
Snyder: Use Actor Access. This is a free service from Breakdown Services that allows me to share breakdowns directly with the actor.
Q: Do you have any advice for actors?
Pemrick: Keep a sense of humor. I love what I do. We have fun. We have a very actor-friendly office. If you come in and you're having a bad day, leave it at the elevator. Enjoy yourself. We are not in a life-or-death situation here. Nothing we do is worth getting stressed over.
Donovan: Remember you are one of the few people in the world lucky enough to do what he or she wants to do. An audition is a chance to do your thing. We love what you do. We love watching you do what you love doing. If you're jaded and bitter, we smell that when you walk in the room.
Dawson: I've never had the desire to be an actor. I couldn't do it. You're putting yourself out there and being rejected. It's like a bad dating scene. But everyone in our company is married to an actor. We empathize. We know what you go through. There's a misconception that casting directors don't like actors. It's just not true.
Baca: Stay in contact with the agency departments at SAG, AFTRA, and AEA. When I think of you and can't remember whom you're represented by, that's where I can go to get that information. Be findable. The agency department is a resource I use every day.
Donovan: Call SAG's Actor Location line at (323) 549-6737 and see if you can find yourself. If you can't find you, neither can we. BSW