In the Envelope: The Actor’s Podcast features in-depth conversations with today’s most noteworthy actors and creators. Join host and senior editor Vinnie Mancuso for this guide to living the creative life from those who are doing it every day.
Kate Rhodes James knows a thing or two about putting a perfect cast together under a great amount of scrutiny. In the past three years alone, the veteran casting director has overseen follow-ups to not one but two cultural landmarks: “House of the Dragon,” the hit prequel to HBO’s “Game of Thrones,” and “Gladiator II,” the long-in-the-works sequel to Ridley Scott’s 2000 historical epic.
On this episode of In the Envelope: The Actor’s Podcast, James gives an in-depth, behind-the-scenes look at the process.
Matt Smith’s “House of the Dragon” role required the most back and forth.
“One particular role that everyone had a very strong opinion on was Daemon [Targaryen]. Everyone’s vision was a visual one. You really had to shake that out of people’s system, because it is such a complex character. And if we just turn him into some sort of physically powerful… you know, [if] those are the attributes that are only of necessity, then I think we’d have made Daemon very dull.
“But obviously, he’s a fascinating character, and you needed an actor like Matt, with all his spectacular choices that he has at hand. He never wants to repeat himself. And now you can’t think of anybody else. In fact, somebody asked me the other day, ‘Do you remember who else was in the running?’ But I just was like, I cannot remember a single person we discussed, because it was always meant to be Matt.”
Credit: Liam Daniel/HBO
Tom Glynn-Carney landed the fan-favorite role of Prince Aegon Targaryen thanks to an onstage dance.
“There is this great myth that [CDs] discover people, but what we do is stockpile actors over years and years and years and years that we love. So when we get a script…you have your back catalog of whom you think would be good. I just knew Tom was perfect for [Aegon]. I was really blessed to have such a great working relationship with [showrunner] Ryan Condal and [executive producer Miguel Sapochnik], who was with us in Season 1. I just said, ‘There’s this one person who is just made for this role.’
“I saw Tom in a play at the Royal Court. It was the Jez Butterworth play [‘The Ferryman’] set in Northern Ireland in the ’70s. The band at the time were the Undertones… and Tom’s entrance is he comes in and he dances to [their song] ‘Teenage Kicks.’ I was in the front row—which was not ideal, but it was for this moment. He had his Doc Martens just banging up and down… really getting into it. And I just looked at him and thought, That’s commitment; that’s a fearless actor….
“I just instinctively knew that Tom would know what to do. Because you have these situations in Series 1, when you go, ‘You’re not gonna do much; but trust us, Season 2, you are gonna set the place on fire.’ And what I love about what Tom does is that he really understood, from the get-go, the tone. There’s always a slight wryness to what he does. He’s really enjoying it, so we’re really enjoying it.”
Several elements go into casting a new “House of the Dragon” character—like Kieran Bew as Hugh Hammer.
“When you are casting a show like this, faces really have to be identifiable. Because the names are complicated; it can be quite dark. Everyone has to really, really inhabit [their character] physically, as well as creatively. I’ve known Kieran for a long time. I cast him in ‘Warrior.’ What we needed for Hugh was the physicality, but also that paternal quality, that protectiveness that he has.
“And also, when you’re putting together a piece like this, you’ve got to think about who’s gonna get on well with each other. The initial cast are really, really strong. They were all, within reason—bar [Rhys Ifans]—relatively unknown. They all really, really had an incredible support network going on and still do. They’re very close. So when you’re bringing new people in, you have to be really careful that you’re not going to bring in someone that’s going to upset what we have. I’ve seen that happen. I know that when somebody is maybe not as collaborative as they could be, the show will suffer. It’s immensely important that when you’re bringing in new people, they’ve also got the confidence to just walk in and inhabit that role and deal with all the existing elements.”
James took a chance on campaigning for Paul Mescal to lead “Gladiator II.”
“The only two things Paul had done were ‘Normal People’ and a tiny role in ‘The Lost Daughter,’ which was neither here nor there. And this is where instinct really took over. I knew what the ending of ‘Gladiator II’ was going to be. And that was a real North Star, to go: OK, this is where we need to end up. If we start there, who at that age has the physicality and the intelligence and the presence? A lot of people were talked about.
“At the London Film Festival, I watched two films: ‘Aftersun,’ a beautiful and very disturbing film, and the one Paul did with Emily Watson, [‘God’s Creatures’], which involved oysters. I needed to be entirely comprehensive in my knowledge of Paul as an actor, because I only really had ‘Normal People.’
“[‘Gladiator II’] is a massive film. Does a huge studio want to take a risk on somebody that isn’t [that well-known]? At that point, he hadn’t been nominated for an Oscar; he was doing his play in the West End. I just knew he was perfect for the role. And once I did my job, Ridley was completely convinced as well. I remember I had a link to one of his films, and there was a moment when he turned to the side, and it was the most perfect Roman nose. I took a quick screenshot of it, and I remember sending it to Ridley.
“But these things don’t happen quickly—nor should they…. There was a process with pretty much everyone. Obviously, not [Denzel Washington]—that was a gift. And [Connie Nielsen] obviously had to come back. But after Paul, everything else started to come together.”
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