In 2015, while working on an episode of the Netflix sketch series “The Characters,” Paul W. Downs was driving to Boston with Lucia Aniello and Jen Statsky when the topic of female comedians came up. Specifically, they wondered why some of their favorites weren’t given the same respect as their male counterparts.
“We just started talking about the idea of a young writer working with someone who cut her teeth at a time when comedy was really, even more so [than it is now,] a boys’ club,” Downs recalls. “And even though [those two women] don’t have the same perspective, they could use comedy as sort of a language that united them.”
From this conversation, “Hacks” was born. The show stars acting veteran Jean Smart as Deborah Vance, a legendary standup trying to reinvent herself, and newcomer Hannah Einbinder as struggling comedy writer Ava Daniels.
The Max series has been a hit ever since it debuted in 2021. To date, “Hacks” has won six Emmys, and it recently scored 16 nominations for its third season. Now, the three creators are back in the writers’ room to work on the fourth of the show’s planned five seasons.
‘Hacks’ Stars Jean Smart + Hannah Einbinder Get Candid You’ve had the story of “Hacks” mapped out from the beginning. Have changes in the entertainment industry affected that plan?
Lucia Aniello: It hasn’t really changed the bigger tentpoles of the story we want to tell, because, I think, generally, the show is a two-hander. It’s a redemption story for these two women who were on the outside of the industry.
But we do try to tackle contemporary topics, so some of the specifics might change. For example, we had always, in the original pitch, talked about Deborah getting an award or a doctorate degree or something from her alma mater, and some of her older, more problematic material coming back to haunt her. That’s only become more relevant as time has gone on.
We really do generally try to keep the show as evergreen as possible so that whether you’re watching it as it comes out or you’re watching it on some orb 20 years from now, it still will feel fresh.
I’m glad you brought up that episode, “Yes, And.” I thought it did a great job of seriously tackling the topic of cancel culture without sacrificing the show’s trademark humor. What was the writing process like?
Paul W. Downs: Well, we wrote that episode with Samantha Riley, who’s one of our writers that’s been on the show since Season 1 and is so brilliant. What we do whenever we write an episode is approach it character-first, in terms of where they are in the arc of the season and the series. And then comedy-first, because “Hacks” is a comedy about comedy and about comedians.
The first thing we always try to do is make it funny, because—especially in episodes like that one, where we are saying something or exploring something that hopefully makes people think—we always find that no matter what your opinion or what your generation, comedy is something that can unite people and make them shift their viewpoint.
Obviously, that’s the thesis of the show for Deborah and Ava. But we also feel like, for audiences, leading with hard comedy does help the medicine go down a little bit—because it’s fun and entertaining, and you let your guard down when you’re laughing, and you can take in perspectives that aren’t necessarily what everybody thinks.
Paul, you write, act, and direct on “Hacks.” How does your work behind the scenes inform your performance?
PWD: Lucia and I met doing improv and sketch comedy together at Upright Citizens Brigade. We started as performers who also wrote, and we started making videos online that we were directing. When I was in one, she would direct it, and when she was in one, I would direct it. So [creating] always was something that we approached holistically. Performing makes us better writers because we write specifically for character. It’s one piece of a larger part for me.
Lucia, I’m interested in your perspective on that, since you started out as a performer. But with this series, you’re writing and doing most of the directing. What made you want to move behind the camera?
LA: I think in some ways it’s because I’m a Capricorn. In general, my personality is just naturally one that really likes taking charge.
But also, I’ve always been really interested in the visual language of film and TV; it’s always been a passion of mine. I do love performing—and you never know, I would love to pop up in the show at some point—because like Paul was saying, I do think it’s all part of a greater whole. I think it all works pretty symbiotically.
How can you tell if a joke is funny in the writers’ room?
LA: I know [it’s funny] when Paul or Jen laugh or if one of our writers laughs. A laugh is such a great indicator; it’s such a visceral way to know whether other people [agree that] what you think is funny is funny. But also, I’m known for laughing at my own jokes, maybe harder than anyone. So, I don’t know.
Some things are more like a funny idea; maybe you won’t scream-laugh at it, but the idea is funny. And then some things are more immediate little joke lines that you think are funny. So there are different levels of funny that evoke different things, whether it’s, like, a thinker versus a guffaw. But, you know, we try to mix them all in; and sometimes things are funnier coming out of a certain person’s mouth, which is why we often like writing for certain actors or comedians.
What tips do you have for young comedians who are trying to make their mark?
LA: I think you have to take advantage of the leaps in technology in terms of being able to just make stuff on your phone. If you have a very specific point of view and voice, and you have something different and fresh to say, then I do think it’ll cut through. But that’s what we really need: people who are willing to speak truth to power in a funny way, using phones or little cameras or whatever it is to do it. If it really is special, I do believe that people will find it. Also, it’s OK if it’s not special and fresh and cutting-edge yet. It has to be worked on to get there, and you have to try and fail to figure out who you are.
PWD: Kayla, [my character Jimmy’s] assistant on the show, is played brilliantly by Megan Stalter. She did the alt-comedy scene in New York, and she and I happened to have been on shows together. But really, the way that she got noticed was doing front-facing videos on her phone and posting on Instagram. She got to develop a character and her character voice, and people started to notice.
You have to take shots and find your people. That’s certainly been key to our success. I mean, I am funny because I work with two women who write and direct me to be funny, you know? Of course, I have whatever talents I have, but my collaborators just lift me so much.
This story originally appeared in the Aug. 15 issue of Backstage Magazine.